A Gregarious Goat And Excessive Cat Grooming

Transcript for:

MR. SAM LITZINGER

12:43:32

I'm Sam Litzinger with Dr. Gary Weitzman, the chief executive officer of the Washington Animal Rescue League. We are interested in your animal-related questions and your stories. 1-877-610-3647. Animalhouse@wamu.org is our email address. Let's take another telephone call from Sarah. Sarah, glad to have you with us in "The Animal House." Question for Dr. Gary?

SARAH

12:43:51

Yes. For decades I've had wonderfully well-behaved dogs, both purebred and from local shelters.

DR. GARY WEITZMAN

12:43:57

Oh, congratulations.

SARAH

12:43:59

But I now have Wookie.

WEITZMAN

12:44:00

I knew that was gonna happen. (laugh)

LITZINGER

12:44:02

You have Wookie?

SARAH

12:44:04

Wookie.

LITZINGER

12:44:04

Yeah.

SARAH

12:44:04

Well, it was difficult finding a good name. But anyway...

LITZINGER

12:44:06

Yeah. That's...

SARAH

12:44:07

...she's a 14-month-old female rescued mutt. No one can figure out what she is. She's likely part Shepherd.

WEITZMAN

12:44:12

Okay.

SARAH

12:44:13

But she shows almost no affection or cuddling or interest in pleasing in.

LITZINGER

12:44:17

Oh.

WEITZMAN

12:44:18

Oh, all right.

SARAH

12:44:19

She's now in her sixth obedience class. I tried to switch from -- I knew -- I've taken all these other dogs to obedience class. I tried to switch from treat-based classes to American Kennel Club classes for focused on obedience competitions, but they now also allow treats which they didn't 15 years ago. And she's degenerated from behaving at a C grade level for the first two months in this class to a D minus or F.

WEITZMAN

12:44:45

Oh, no.

LITZINGER

12:44:45

She just -- she's afraid to bring a report card home to you.

SARAH

12:44:49

Something. I mean, and before her last class yesterday I fed her a double dinner in advance. But the point is that she's obsessed and aroused by the smallest food reward, a piece of her kibble, and she won't come, even in a house or class, without a food reward...

WEITZMAN

12:45:04

Hmm.

SARAH

12:45:05

...of course, or a long line, no interest in praise. She gets along well with other dogs, all kinds of other dogs. She gets along fine with at least one kid, she's tolerant of cats, but she's aloof from other adults besides me.

WEITZMAN

12:45:18

Okay. All right.

SARAH

12:45:19

And ever since a two-year-old female Shiba Inu mix moved in the house with a roommate five months ago, she's become an extremely aggressive and hostile barker. Much worse than the Shiba Inu...

WEITZMAN

12:45:30

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SARAH

12:45:31

...who's much more eager to please and easy to train with praise.

WEITZMAN

12:45:34

And doesn't say a word because they're very -- they're quiet dogs.

SARAH

12:45:37

Well, no. No. She's a great -- this is a mix and so she's a great barker.

WEITZMAN

12:45:40

Okay. Oh, terrific, okay.

LITZINGER

12:45:42

She got the other end of the ...

WEITZMAN

12:45:43

Yeah. She got the other side, good. Okay. Sarah, it sounds like...

SARAH

12:45:44

And she basically -- they both have an extremely high energy level which seems to get worse the more they chase and wrestle.

WEITZMAN

12:45:51

Yeah. Yeah. They get themselves all worked up. Well, I'm hearing a couple things going on for you with Wookie. One is obviously -- well, I should ask you too, what is the training issue that you're trying to train that she's going to so many classes?

SARAH

12:46:03

Well, she won't come when called...

WEITZMAN

12:46:05

Okay.

SARAH

12:46:06

...even indoors or in class, and she barks...

WEITZMAN

12:46:07

So you mean just basic obedience training?

SARAH

12:46:09

And her barking is horrible. I mean, it's, you know, it's scary.

WEITZMAN

12:46:14

Okay.

SARAH

12:46:14

And -- but she barks only in the house...

WEITZMAN

12:46:16

Okay.

SARAH

12:46:16

...not in class or in the dog park.

WEITZMAN

12:46:18

Yeah.

SARAH

12:46:18

And she's -- and I've thought about different kinds of bark collars, I've tried different kinds of training collars, and two professional private trainers have suggested that perhaps I should find her another home and get another dog.

WEITZMAN

12:46:31

Oh, yeah.

SARAH

12:46:31

But then I'd have to start training all over again. Right. Right. Well, okay.

LITZINGER

12:46:35

Help, Gary.

WEITZMAN

12:46:36

So the two things that I'm hearing -- yeah, absolutely. One is difficulty obedience training. The second thing is of course her attachment to you. And the first one, I would suggested a private trainer, but it sounds like you've already gone that route. The second one is gonna be a real tough one. We get a lot of dogs in that have been through horrific experiences, but we do get some dogs like Wookie that just -- humans are not her thing. And it doesn't mean necessarily, Sarah, that she doesn't care for you, I mean "care" in quotes, you know, that she's not attached in her way to you, but it's just there are some dogs that just are not gonna make that bond like we want them to.

WEITZMAN

12:47:13

But I would say, you know, if there's other value in the relationship with Wookie, honestly, I would say that it's probably gonna get better the more training that you do. I do think your days of doing group classes probably should stop because unless you're trying to get her to be socialized with other dogs, it sounds like that's the one thing you don't have to deal with right now because she's pretty good with other dogs.

WEITZMAN

12:47:36

It sounds like there's not a whole of value in her continuing to basically drag you to group classes so that she can not learn the lesson. I think you're gonna need a positive certified pet dog trainer, you know, once a week for a while just to, you know, increase that bond with you. But again, she's not gonna be, you know, a Golden Retriever that's wagging his or her tail and coming up to you and wanting that kind of attention. So there's -- I'm sure there is some anxiety there, but she's doing what we all, you know, reactive dog behavior and it's the worst behavior that we can have them do because it doesn't help them and it doesn't help us.

WEITZMAN

12:48:12

We do most of our classes in the evenings and on weekends, they're just full to the brim with people with reactive dogs and the success rate is pretty good. So I think we need to find you a trainer that really knows how to work with reactive dogs in a positive way, and if you're not in our area, I can find you somebody. Our trainers are all connected. But I'd say why don't you give me a call or email me at the League...

SARAH

12:48:33

Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:48:33

...and let's see if I can find you someone that you haven't already used necessarily.

SARAH

12:48:36

Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:48:37

And have you talk to one of our trainers, because honestly, reactive dogs, we can fix a lot of that. We can't make her want to be a lap dog but, you know, maybe some of that will come in time.

SARAH

12:48:47

But I don't understand, because this aggressive barking only -- she only learned it from the Shiba Inu. Before that, I don't think she barked -- well, you know...

WEITZMAN

12:48:57

Yeah. She's either reacting to the Shiba, or she literally, just like you said, learned it from the Shiba.

SARAH

12:49:03

Well, she's so bonded with the Shiba that when the Shiba went away for a long weekend, she spent the whole time crying and whining, and you know.

WEITZMAN

12:49:11

Oh, okay. Yeah. She's doing pack behavior by barking with the Shiba.

SARAH

12:49:16

Yeah. Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:49:16

Yeah. That was a lesson she picked up unfortunately very quickly, rather than the obedience work.

LITZINGER

12:49:22

The dog is training herself to do these things.

WEITZMAN

12:49:23

Yeah. Yeah.

LITZINGER

12:49:24

But drop Gary a note after the program, Sarah.

WEITZMAN

12:49:25

Let's get you a positive trainer that can help with reactivity.

LITZINGER

12:49:28

Yeah. It's -- thanks, Sarah. Dogs do learn things as they, you know...

WEITZMAN

12:49:31

They do. They do.

LITZINGER

12:49:32

Old dogs can learn new tricks.

WEITZMAN

12:49:34

Yeah. And they're usually not the tricks you want them to learn.

LITZINGER

12:49:36

Yeah, right. It's like hey, I know how to open this refrigerator now and eat all the food. 1-877-610-3647. Animalhouse@wamu.org is our email address. Let's take a telephone call from John. John, glad to have you with us in "The Animal House." Question for Dr. Gary?

JOHN

12:49:51

Yes. I have a 12-year-old orange female tabby cat. I've had her since she was a kitten. She's developed this habit of over grooming. She's like chewing her fur off.

WEITZMAN

12:50:04

Oh, okay.

JOHN

12:50:05

She doesn't go down to the skin, but she like clips the fur off with her teeth.

WEITZMAN

12:50:10

Yeah. Yeah. And what's her name by the way?

JOHN

12:50:12

Her name is Neve. It's an Irish name.

WEITZMAN

12:50:14

Okay. And how long has she been self-grooming like this? Or what we call psychogenic alopecia.

JOHN

12:50:22

She's been doing it off and one since -- we've been living in this house about six years now and she first started out like just on her belly I guess, and...

WEITZMAN

12:50:33

Okay.

JOHN

12:50:34

...and then she'd stop it for a while, and then she'd go back to it. And then lately she just is like her whole underside and her paws.

WEITZMAN

12:50:43

Right. right. And that's a very common place to do it. Well, okay. Six years at least of doing this. You know, really, unfortunately John, really common thing, and I -- I'm sure you've been to your vet already, but let's just tell listeners out there this is a really common problem with cats, and it's almost always due to anxiety. But, you know, before you can diagnose anxiety, you definitely want to see your vet to make sure other things aren't happening like a fungal infection, like ringworm, or skin allergies, or food allergies, or fleas, heaven forbid. You know, that's the most embarrassing in the world.

WEITZMAN

12:51:14

You go to your vet and there's fleas. You want to make sure that you have that ruled out by your vet first.

JOHN

12:51:19

Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:51:20

So once you have, and that's pretty easy to do with a physical exam, then the next thing to do is to address the stress, and to -- have you talked to your vet about perhaps doing an anti-anxiety medication like Prozac or Clomipramine or something like that?

JOHN

12:51:35

We tried the kitty Prozac and didn't -- really had no affect on her whatsoever.

WEITZMAN

12:51:39

Okay. Did you do it for long enough? It usually takes about six weeks or more to really see an effect.

JOHN

12:51:44

Yeah. Yeah, we did it at least that long, yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:51:46

Okay. All right. And no effect at all? Okay. It may require a different dose of it, and I would go back and talk to your vet about that. Obviously we don't do a lot of prescribing on the show, but go back and talk to your vet about a different dose or try something else like Clomipramine I just mentioned a minute ago. That's another anti-anxiety medication packaged as Clomacom for dogs and cats. And I think one of those two ought to be able to tackle this for her.

WEITZMAN

12:52:11

Years and years ago we used to use Prednisone -- Cortisone to actually -- we give them a shot of it which we don't do very much anymore thankfully, but that would also help, and I think if you get to the point that the anti-anxiety medications aren't working it maybe -- there may be something else to talk to your vet about. But it's almost always due to anxiety and I'd say do the things that are, you know, more natural as well as drugs, you know. Lots of enrichment, toys, post for her climb up, lots of things, you know, make it -- we always say make it Disneyland in the living room for her if you can so that she has other outlets as well.

WEITZMAN

12:52:48

Put food in, you know, to use treat dispensing toys, put food in Kongs, you know, whatever keeps her kind of stimulated and happy. But I would definitely talk to your vet.

JOHN

12:52:57

She's a very intelligent cat. I mean, she's the most -- she's the oldest cat we have and she's the most playful and most inquisitive.

WEITZMAN

12:53:05

Yeah. And she -- this is just a nervous habit. You know, when they do chew like this, when they do overgrooming, it actually releases endorphins, so it's like biting your fingernails.

LITZINGER

12:53:12

Wow.

WEITZMAN

12:53:13

So that's why we want to sort of break that cycle and that's where Prozac really comes in. So I think have a visit with your vet, have a chat about the medications, but you got to get her on something because this girl is telling you I'm anxious, and even though she's a great playful cat, it may be really worthwhile to let her grow her coat back.

LITZINGER

12:53:30

Let's take one more call from Phyllis. Phyllis, glad to have you with us in "The Animal House." Question for Dr. Gary?

PHYLLIS

12:53:35

Yes, thank you.

WEITZMAN

12:53:36

Sure.

PHYLLIS

12:53:38

We adopted two cats in 2005 from Four Paws, a rescue league.

WEITZMAN

12:53:42

Good. Okay.

PHYLLIS

12:53:43

And Lewis is six months old, and Pumpkin they weren't really sure. He's the dominant one, but he was five or six, and they were both from the same house. We actually got two that we thought would get along.

WEITZMAN

12:53:55

Okay.

PHYLLIS

12:53:56

So Lewis was friendly to everyone. He was only six months old when we got him, and he's gotten reclusive, and we had a sitter here for three weeks one time. She didn't see him.

WEITZMAN

12:54:09

Oh, no. Okay.

PHYLLIS

12:54:11

I really dread taking him to the vet. I told her one time, you know, can I delay it so I get the shot a little early so I don't have to bring him in for a 12-month.

WEITZMAN

12:54:19

Yeah. We hear that a lot actually. Well, how old is he now?

PHYLLIS

12:54:24

He's like seven.

WEITZMAN

12:54:25

Oh, he is, okay. Okay.

PHYLLIS

12:54:26

Yeah. Yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:54:27

All right.

PHYLLIS

12:54:29

And he has dandruff which the vet says is due to stress.

WEITZMAN

12:54:32

It can be, yeah. It can be.

PHYLLIS

12:54:34

And, you know, I don't know this happened. Anyway, the other one is as laid back as you're gonna get. He comes up to everyone. I mean they're like A and Z really.

WEITZMAN

12:54:44

Okay.

PHYLLIS

12:54:45

He jumped on a friend's lap, you know, so -- and my husband and I watch TV. Now, Pumpkin watches on the bed. Lewis, I have to sit on the floor with him because I'm trying to socialize him a little bit.

WEITZMAN

12:54:58

Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

PHYLLIS

12:55:00

And so...

WEITZMAN

12:55:01

Well, are they both littermates? I lost that at the beginning when you were describing. They're not five or six years apart in age are they?

PHYLLIS

12:55:07

Yeah. Well...

WEITZMAN

12:55:08

Oh, they are?

PHYLLIS

12:55:09

...see, we think that -- they said that the older one was five or six...

WEITZMAN

12:55:13

Okay.

PHYLLIS

12:55:14

...and the other one was six months.

WEITZMAN

12:55:15

Okay. So they're vastly different in age, okay. But same -- are they from the same...

PHYLLIS

12:55:20

Same house.

WEITZMAN

12:55:22

Oh same house but not parent, okay.

PHYLLIS

12:55:22

I guess the people were moving and they...

WEITZMAN

12:55:24

Well, then there's a ton of variables here, genetic of course and obviously socialization because they were raised at different times when they were kittens, and we know that cats require a very strict amount of time to become social, and if we don't get them into that time, if we don't get them to be social during that time...

PHYLLIS

12:55:40

Oh.

WEITZMAN

12:55:41

...by really as early as three months old, then it's too late. So maybe four if you want to stretch it, but I think most of my behaviorist colleagues will make me come back down to three months for that window. So I think, unfortunately Phyllis, I think these are the cats you've got. One outgoing, you know, A-personality cat, and one quiet cat that needs a lot of TLC and hopefully doesn't have any behavior issues that are negative for you. I mean, a little bit of dandruff, maybe a diet change, but...

PHYLLIS

12:56:09

Oh, that doesn't bother us.

WEITZMAN

12:56:11

No. Of course not.

PHYLLIS

12:56:12

I think that he's so fearful, but a lot of times, like he'll lay on his back in the house with us and you wouldn't think it was the same cat, but, you know...

WEITZMAN

12:56:19

Yeah.

PHYLLIS

12:56:19

...let somebody knock on the door and he's history, you know?

WEITZMAN

12:56:22

But that's okay. I mean, I could live with that over taking medication for it.

PHYLLIS

12:56:26

Yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:56:26

I think that might be an okay trade off if it's -- if he's okay with you and your family...

PHYLLIS

12:56:31

Yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:56:31

... but doesn't like strangers or the pet sitter, that's okay. If it's with you, or you see him always huddled up in a corner, or...

PHYLLIS

12:56:37

Yeah. He does that.

WEITZMAN

12:56:39

Even when it's just you and your husband?

PHYLLIS

12:56:41

Right. I grab him.

WEITZMAN

12:56:42

You know, I wouldn't actively grab him.

PHYLLIS

12:56:44

Oh.

WEITZMAN

12:56:44

I think I would do everything on his terms unless he's doing something that you can't let him do.

PHYLLIS

12:56:47

Oh.

WEITZMAN

12:56:49

Because you are pushing an introvert...

PHYLLIS

12:56:51

Oh.

WEITZMAN

12:56:52

...so I think I would do it on his terms, but I would also have a conversation with your vet. If you think that his quality of life is not terrific because of his anxiety, you know, I hate to keep defaulting to medication, but I would talk to your vet...

PHYLLIS

12:57:02

Right.

WEITZMAN

12:57:03

...about trying something that will take the edge off of this guy.

LITZINGER

12:57:06

Thanks Phyllis.

PHYLLIS

12:57:07

Okay. All right.

LITZINGER

12:57:07

Report back to us in a little while after you've talked to your vet too.

WEITZMAN

12:57:09

Yeah, please.

PHYLLIS

12:57:10

Okay. All right.

WEITZMAN

12:57:10

Good luck.

LITZINGER

12:57:10

Thank you very much. Thank you Dr. Gary.

WEITZMAN

12:57:13

You're welcome. I'm Dr. Gary Weitzman, and this is an "Animal House" pet care tip. Dogs can be a handful. We try to save your sanity every week on this show by offering some advice or maybe just a sympathetic ear for all the havoc they can generate, but right now let's talk about a common and troublesome approach some people employ to train or control their dogs using prong collars and choke chains.

WEITZMAN

12:57:32

If you have either of these medieval torture devices, you know, the stainless steel collar with the blunted spikes inside, or the chain you can pull tautly to get your dog's attention, I'd like you to get up, take them to the nearest garbage can and throw them out. This is not the way to train any dog, regardless of the circumstance. Now, I'm not suggesting that using a prong or choke collar makes you a bad person, in fact, most people using these are just trying to get their dogs to behave.

WEITZMAN

12:57:52

But these methods provide unflattering evidence that you've just given up on training. A good head halter such as the Gentle Leader, or a chest harness like the Freedom Harness is a humane way to control an unruly or energetic animal. Add some positive obedience training to the mix and you're well on the way to having the perfect canine companion. So remember, that prong collar to choke chain belongs in the garbage can, not around your dog's throat. For "The Animal House," I'm Dr. Gary Weitzman.

LITZINGER

12:58:15

This edition of "The Animal House" is almost a wrap. First though, we have the answer to today's Animal of the Day quiz. Earlier we asked if you knew the name of the only dog breed that originated in the African nation of Zimbabwe. The answer? The Rhodesian Ridgeback. By the way, of course, Rhodesia became Zimbabwe when it gained international recognition of its independence in April of 1980.

LITZINGER

12:58:38

Thanks to Jeff Corwin, Rick Woodford, and Justin Goodman for their contributions today. We also thank Bob James, Enya, and Peter Tchaikovsky for their music today. Special thanks to Dr. Gary Weitzman for his work. Thanks to you for joining us in "The Animal House." I'm Sam Litzinger.

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