Discouraging A Terrier From Nipping

MR. SAM LITZINGER

12:43:34
I'm Sam Litzinger with Dr. Gary Weitzman, chief executive officer of the Washington Animal Rescue League. We want to hear about your pet's curious behavior, maybe your curious behavior too. 1-877-610-3647. Animalhouse@wamu.org is our email address. Again, the telephone number is 1-877-610-3647. The email address is animalhouse@wamu.org, plus guess the genus and species of our animal of the day at facebook.com/wamuanimalhouse. Let us take a telephone call first from Mary. Mary, glad to have you with in "The Animal House." Question for Dr. Gary?

MARY

12:44:11
I have two female Beagles.

LITZINGER

12:44:14
Good for you, Mary.

MARY

12:44:14
Oh, yes.

DR. GARY WEITZMAN

12:44:16
Yes.

MARY

12:44:16
Yeah. I probably only have them because my husband hunts them, but they are really cute dogs, but I have a real problem with the housebreaking issue. Misty is three and a half, and she's the mom of Princess Fanny, who is one and a half.

WEITZMAN

12:44:29
Okay.

LITZINGER

12:44:30
That's a good name. Why Princess Fanny, just of curiosity, Mary?

MARY

12:44:32
Well, the kids named her Princess because she looked like she had pearls around her neck...

LITZINGER

12:44:37
Aww.

MARY

12:44:38
...and white paws, and she got the name of Fanny because she was no princess. (laugh)

WEITZMAN

12:44:43
Oh. (laugh) .

MARY

12:44:44
She has so much personality she doesn't know what to do with it. But they're both...

LITZINGER

12:44:48
That's a nice mix.

MARY

12:44:49
Yeah, it is. But they're both peeing and pooping wherever they feel like it, whenever it's inconvenient or distasteful for them to go outside.

LITZINGER

12:44:56
That's one of them calling in the background now….

WEITZMAN

12:44:57
I think so, to complain.

LITZINGER

12:44:58
...saying by the way, I peed and pooped in the living room, mom, I just wanted to let you know.

MARY

12:45:00
Right. Right. Right. I just wanted to let you know. I did it again.

LITZINGER

12:45:02
Yeah. So we got a housebreaking problem here.

WEITZMAN

12:45:03
Oh, okay.

MARY

12:45:05
But I work from home, and we have a really large open floor plan, so it was hard for me when I trained them to keep them confined without caging them...

WEITZMAN

12:45:13
Yeah.

MARY

12:45:13
...at which time they would howl and drive me nuts.

WEITZMAN

12:45:16
Oh, as -- yes, as only Beagles can do, the howling.

MARY

12:45:18
Oh, you know.

WEITZMAN

12:45:19
Yeah. Yeah.

MARY

12:45:20
But they -- I trained them with jingle bells, and they did a pretty good job of jingle bell stuff down, when they feel like it.

WEITZMAN

12:45:28
Okay. Yeah.

MARY

12:45:28
And what -- and sometimes they will go out and come back in, and 15 minutes later, I find that they've peed and/or pooped wherever they felt like doing that.

LITZINGER

12:45:37
Ooh.

WEITZMAN

12:45:38
Oh.

LITZINGER

12:45:38
Okay. So...

MARY

12:45:38
So I'm just...

WEITZMAN

12:45:39
Yeah.

LITZINGER

12:45:40
Bad habits.

MARY

12:45:41
...like (makes noise) .

WEITZMAN

12:45:41
Yeah. That's terrible. Has it always been like this?

MARY

12:45:44
Pretty much. And I think it's because the mom wasn't like that until the pups came along and started doing that, and it took us a long time to get rid of the puppies.

WEITZMAN

12:45:50
Yeah.

MARY

12:45:51
And I couldn't train five puppies at one time, so the bad habits were established...

WEITZMAN

12:45:55
Yeah.

MARY

12:45:56
...and it's my fault for not really getting on top of it. But what I started to do this past week was lock them in my office with me, and they're actually not being too crazy, and I only give them a treat if they cry to go out, not if I periodically let them out.

WEITZMAN

12:46:11
Okay. All right. So is that working?

MARY

12:46:14
Well, it worked once, so far. I just started it, but I don't trust them not to just do exactly what they have been doing.

WEITZMAN

12:46:21
Yeah. Yeah.

MARY

12:46:22
It's just when they don't feel -- the other day when it was really cold and windy, I let them outside, they came in and peed.

WEITZMAN

12:46:27
Oh, right. Right. Because who wants to do that out there? I know, when the weather's bad, yes, of course.

MARY

12:46:30
Exactly.

LITZINGER

12:46:31
It's cold out there.

WEITZMAN

12:46:32
It's gonna be a long winter for you if that keeps up.

MARY

12:46:34
Yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:46:35
Okay. There's two things. The bad news is obviously they're not housebroken. The good news is, it's very easy to fix that, relatively so.

MARY

12:46:41
Oh, good.

WEITZMAN

12:46:42
Because they're young, they can still learn this, but the hard part for you is going to be treating them as they're both pups that you've just brought in, because you've really got to start with square one.

MARY

12:46:50
Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:46:51
And I'm gonna recommend a crate, but you don't have to use crates for them, you can just use a very restricted small area of the house. But the big mistake people make is even though you've had these wonderful dogs for, you know, three...

MARY

12:47:02
Yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:47:02
Did you say one of them is five years old?

MARY

12:47:04
One is three and a half...

WEITZMAN

12:47:05
One's three and a half.

MARY

12:47:05
...and she was almost all the way housebroken...

WEITZMAN

12:47:07
Yeah.

MARY

12:47:07
...but she would have occasional accidents, so...

WEITZMAN

12:47:09
Well, she's had a setback with the litter.

MARY

12:47:10
Yeah. With the litter, yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:47:12
Yeah. But don't fall for it. They are not...

LITZINGER

12:47:15
(laugh) It's a trick, Mary.

WEITZMAN

12:47:16
Yes. It's a total trick. They...

MARY

12:47:18
Oh, she is a good trickster.

WEITZMAN

12:47:19
...don't have privileges yet. You have to really make sure that you start from scratch with them, and don't give them free reign of the house. That's the biggest problem that people have...

MARY

12:47:26
Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:47:26
...with housebreaking, because it's just too much. You know, they're not trying to do the wrong thing, they're just trying to do what they figured out to do and what seems successful. House training is all about reward, it's never about punishment.

MARY

12:47:38
Right.

WEITZMAN

12:47:38
So you're doing the right thing, you know, really good to have them tell you that they have to go out, get out there, let them do their thing, reward them when they ask to go outside, and when they actually do what they're supposed to do outside. Then it's all a reward-based behavior. But you've got to really cut off access to the rest of the house to get that to happen.

MARY

12:47:56
Yeah. And I figured that out, it's just with this house being as wide open and large as it is, I've got to corral them immediately into my office...

WEITZMAN

12:48:02
Hmm.

MARY

12:48:03
...and lock them here in my office, because the minute I turn my back on them, they can run down the steps and they'll be in my husband's shop peeing and pooping in the sawdust.

WEITZMAN

12:48:11
Oh, yeah. You know, actually, that's a really interesting thing that you said, because an open floor plan could be more difficult for dogs to master than, you know, small rooms.

MARY

12:48:20
Oh, I'm sure it is.

WEITZMAN

12:48:21
Yeah. Because you've just got the whole world for them right there, and, you know, even if they learn, don't go in the den, you know, they're gonna say, well, the basement or the workshop or wherever else they can go, the dining room, you know, is perfectly okay.

LITZINGER

12:48:31
It's all one big room, really.

WEITZMAN

12:48:32
Yeah. Yeah. It's all one big world.

MARY

12:48:35
And that really is the way that the house is, but then we take them to my mother-in-law's house, it's a much smaller little old farmhouse, and they do the same thing there.

WEITZMAN

12:48:43
Yeah. Yeah.

MARY

12:48:44
That's not a good thing.

WEITZMAN

12:48:45
Don't bring them to family yet. Get this fixed first. And you really -- you ought to be able to do it within about a month.

MARY

12:48:51
Oh, that's good news.

WEITZMAN

12:48:51
And if you have trouble doing it, then I'd say, get a private trainer in for maybe two sessions to help you with this.

MARY

12:48:56
Oh, okay.

WEITZMAN

12:48:57
And I can certainly give you a list of them if you want to call me up at the shelter or check locally for you.

LITZINGER

12:49:02
But it's all positive reinforcement.

MARY

12:49:02
I will, but I'm...

WEITZMAN

12:49:03
All positive, yeah.

MARY

12:49:04
...I'm hoping that they will get it even with this large floor plan in a month's time. I can live with that.

WEITZMAN

12:49:10
Yeah.

LITZINGER

12:49:10
They're Beagles, they're genius dogs.

WEITZMAN

12:49:12
They're geniuses.

MARY

12:49:12
Well, and..

LITZINGER

12:49:14
Thanks, Mary. Give us a progress report in about a month, will you?

MARY

12:49:17
Okay. Thank you.

LITZINGER

12:49:17
And if you have specific problems, drop Dr. Gary a line too.

MARY

12:49:20
Okay. Thanks.

WEITZMAN

12:49:21
Okay.

LITZINGER

12:49:21
Thanks very much, yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:49:22
Bye.

LITZINGER

12:49:23
Yeah. It must be so confusing for the dogs to have that...

WEITZMAN

12:49:25
I know. I never thought that before.

LITZINGER

12:49:26
It's huge, come on, it's all mine.

WEITZMAN

12:49:27
Yeah.

LITZINGER

12:49:27
It's a huge open floor plan. 1-877-640-3647. Our email address is animalhouse@wamu.org. Here's an email question from Amy. "Our kitty, Licorice, is two years old and has a swollen nose. This is a condition that's developed over time. She's tested negative for crypto," what's that?

WEITZMAN

12:49:47
Oh, it's an infection, but that would be an unusual one. Okay.

LITZINGER

12:49:50
Okay. "She eats, plays, and purrs, and acts normally. She has started rubbing it on occasion, her nose, but otherwise is fine. Any thoughts?" What would account possibly for a swollen nose in a kitty?

WEITZMAN

12:50:00
Ooh, heavens, this is where we get into those lovely malpractice issues that we try and diagnose.

LITZINGER

12:50:04
Well, what are the range of possibilities. What -- in other words, let's make it more specific. When Amy goes to the vet, which I assume...

WEITZMAN

12:50:09
Exactly.

LITZINGER

12:50:10
...she -- you would like her to do...

WEITZMAN

12:50:11
I would love her to do that.

LITZINGER

12:50:12
...what should be asking?

WEITZMAN

12:50:13
This is a young cat, so I would definitely talk to her vet about all the differentials and they could be anything from infection to an autoimmune disease to things like we used to call them rodent ulcers because we thought that cats got bit on the face by a rat or a mouse...

LITZINGER

12:50:26
Hmm.

WEITZMAN

12:50:26
...and caused this ulceration, but they actually can be autoimmune or immune-mediated disorders in cats, and they're pretty common. That's the range of it, infection or an immune-mediated disorder. But I would definitely have her checked by her vet, because honestly, if it's looking so wrong to the owner...

LITZINGER

12:50:44
If it's noticeable.

WEITZMAN

12:50:45
Yes. If it's noticeable, it's probably painful too.

LITZINGER

12:50:48
Right.

WEITZMAN

12:50:48
So I would definitely have her checked out by her vet to find out what that is and then get the proper treatment for it. The nice thing is that often, you know, with an injection or some medications, then those autoimmune or immune-mediated problems can go away pretty easily. The problem with that is it can come back.

LITZINGER

12:51:00
It must be difficult for the cats because they -- oh, it can come back?

WEITZMAN

12:51:03
Yeah.

LITZINGER

12:51:03
Yeah. But it must be awful for the cat because the cat...

WEITZMAN

12:51:05
Oh, yeah, terrible.

LITZINGER

12:51:05
...depends on the nose so much.

WEITZMAN

12:51:07
Yeah, terrible.

LITZINGER

12:51:08
What did you say crypto was again? Is that a common problem?

WEITZMAN

12:51:10
Yeah. It's an infection. It is not that common in cats, but it's good that it's ruled out. But I imagine she's already been to her vet if she has that ruled out.

LITZINGER

12:51:17
Okay. Well, she's got to go back. Maybe the condition has worsened since she took her in for the crypto test.

WEITZMAN

12:51:20
Yeah. And of course, you know, don't be afraid, anybody out there with a chronic problem with their animal and the skin, if it can't be diagnosed by a physical exam, get a quick biopsy.

LITZINGER

12:51:29
Good. Our telephone number is 1-877-610-3647. Our email address is animalhouse@wamu.org. Let's take a phone call from Melissa. Melissa, glad to have you with us in "The Animal House." Question for Dr. Gary?

MELISSA

12:51:41
We adopted Charlie this last June from our local animal shelter, and he...

WEITZMAN

12:51:45
Oh, good. Good for you.

MELISSA

12:51:46
Yeah. And he's now a year and a half, and he's 30 pounds. He's a Cairn Terrier mix.

WEITZMAN

12:51:51
Okay.

MELISSA

12:51:52
One of his issues is when he gets really anxious or excited, he chomps his teeth together. He makes like a chomping sound, and he chomps his teeth together, and then he also jumps up and nips or mouths our hands.

WEITZMAN

12:52:05
Ooh.

MELISSA

12:52:05
And -- yeah. We took him to puppy school this last fall, and that was good, and that helped, and we also used squirt guns sometimes with him.

WEITZMAN

12:52:13
Hmm, okay.

MELISSA

12:52:13
And that seems to help like kind of reinforce that this isn't a good behavior, but I get really concerned when he's around toddlers, and I actually end up helicoptering around toddlers.

WEITZMAN

12:52:22
Oh, yeah. I'd very concerned about that, okay.

MELISSA

12:52:25
Yeah. You know, I mean, he's never -- it never hurts, it never leaves a mark or anything, but it's scary. I...

WEITZMAN

12:52:31
How old did you say Charlie is now?

MELISSA

12:52:33
Well, when we got him they said he was a year.

WEITZMAN

12:52:35
Okay.

MELISSA

12:52:35
We probably think he was more like nine months, ten months, so -- yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:52:37
Okay. All right. So he's still -- he's a young a dog still. You're very, very right to be concerned about him, especially if you're around a lot of toddlers or children.

MELISSA

12:52:46
Mm-hmm.

WEITZMAN

12:52:46
This is, I mean, any terrier -- terriers are bred to hunt and hurt, and, you know, unlike a Border Collie which is, you know, herding or even a Shepherd, but terriers, they're bred way, way back in terrier, you know, origins, to bite. So even if his biting doesn't hurt or break the skin at this point, it's going to. So I would say first of all, don't let Charlie around the kids yet, I mean, the ones that aren't your own kids...

MELISSA

12:53:09
Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:53:10
….that don't --that aren't educated and you can't protect.

MELISSA

12:53:11
Sure.

WEITZMAN

12:53:13
And then I think you do need to have a couple things, one is, do some positive training with him, so make sure that he's listening, and really the squirt gun thing doesn't work. I mean, even if it's helping a little bit now...

MELISSA

12:53:23
Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:53:24
….down the road, it's probably gonna make things worse, and what he's reacting to...

MELISSA

12:53:27
Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:53:28
...is he's having an explosion of emotion, which is why he can't hold it in, and he's biting as he jumps up. So you definitely don't want to make things more exiting for him with a squirt gun, but you want to redirect...

MELISSA

12:53:38
Sure.

WEITZMAN

12:53:38
...that behavior to something more appropriate, and that's usually done with reward rather than something, you know, even though a squirt gun's not gonna hurt him, it's gonna get him -- it's gonna put him in the wrong direction.

MELISSA

12:53:47
Sure.

WEITZMAN

12:53:48
So I would say, I'd get a private trainer and, you know...

MELISSA

12:53:51
Okay.

WEITZMAN

12:53:51
...it won't be for, you know, a year. It'll be for a couple weeks, and start to get him rewarded for better behavior so that you know what his limit is. Because the real reality here is that since he is a terrier, there may be a limit to what you can expose him to as far as children are concerned. So that's -- and that's the thing about terriers. They're wonderful, great dogs with great personalities, but there's a limit to what you can expose them to because they're still terriers and they're gonna want to do what terriers do.

MELISSA

12:54:18
Yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:54:20
So that's why I'd say...

MELISSA

12:54:20
Sure.

WEITZMAN

12:54:20
...get a private trainer to your house, a one on one, lots of exercise for this guy because he needs to really get exhausted, and get somebody in to help you to reward him for more appropriate behavior so that at the very least you know where that limit is.

MELISSA

12:54:32
Sure.

WEITZMAN

12:54:32
We're not talking about, you know, a college degree, you know. It's really maybe a month of having a trainer there, and then a lot of it's done on your own, and then there's a limit, there's just knowing where his end point is of what he can be exposed to. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy, you know, a wonderful little dog.

MELISSA

12:54:48
Yeah. Oh, he is. He's really great.

WEITZMAN

12:54:50
Yeah. But teeth can never touch a human. That's the real thing you have to train him for.

MELISSA

12:54:53
Right. Yeah.

WEITZMAN

12:54:55
And it's best done with positive training.

LITZINGER

12:54:57
Give that a try, would you, Melissa...

MELISSA

12:54:57
Okay.

LITZINGER

12:54:58
...and report back to us if you don't mind giving us a kind of report card after Charlie's...

WEITZMAN

12:55:02
Yeah.

LITZINGER

12:55:02
...gone through a little training.

WEITZMAN

12:55:04
And if you need a good trainer, I can, you know...

MELISSA

12:55:05
Sure.

WEITZMAN

12:55:05
...call me at the shelter and I'll be happy to get you somebody in your area that can help you.

LITZINGER

12:55:09
Yeah. Or drop Gary an email.

MELISSA

12:55:09
Which shelter are you at?

LITZINGER

12:55:11
Washington Animal Rescue League.

WEITZMAN

12:55:13
Yes. Thank you for saying that.

MELISSA

12:55:13
Oh, Washington Animal...

LITZINGER

12:55:14
That's where he'd be, and Gary has email address there that you can just drop him a line if you need somebody local.

MELISSA

12:55:17
Wonderful.

WEITZMAN

12:55:18
Yeah, definitely.

LITZINGER

12:55:19
Thanks, Melissa.

MELISSA

12:55:20
Thank you. Thank you.

WEITZMAN

12:55:21
Sure. Good luck with him.

LITZINGER

12:55:22
This kind of follows up to our next email question, because this is gonna be so easy for you.

WEITZMAN

12:55:27
Okay.

LITZINGER

12:55:27
"I have a friend..." this is from Allison. "I have a friend looking to adopt a cat." Say, Gary, where is the best place to find a cat?

WEITZMAN

12:55:35
Well, if you can't get to the Washington Animal Rescue League (laugh) then...

LITZINGER

12:55:39
Would you say an animal shelter would be?

WEITZMAN

12:55:40
I'd say an animal shelter, yes.

LITZINGER

12:55:40
Aah.

WEITZMAN

12:55:41
Go to an animal shelter. You don't even have to go to an animal shelter anymore, you can go to any, you know, pet stores have a lot of rescue groups that are getting cats -- trying to get cats out to -- and that's really the biggest issue, trying to get cats into homes. But definitely go to a shelter.

LITZINGER

12:55:56
And most shelters have what the Washington Animal Rescue League has which is a kind -- a meet your match program.

WEITZMAN

12:56:00
Well...

LITZINGER

12:56:00
So presumably, Allison is looking for a cat that will fit her lifestyle.

WEITZMAN

12:56:04
Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah.

LITZINGER

12:56:05
And so there is some way to judge how that could be done?

WEITZMAN

12:56:07
You know, definitely there are a lot of shelters with very limited resources, so may have not an elaborate system in place, but they certainly have someone to talk to, and they've got a lot devoted volunteers usually, and caretakers who know the animals and help guide whomever into the right forever companion. So I think definitely go to your shelter, talk to them about what you're looking for.

LITZINGER

12:56:27
That was the biggest, fattest softball question you'll ever be asked on this program.

WEITZMAN

12:56:30
Wasn't the best? I love that.

LITZINGER

12:56:31
Where is the best place to get an animal, and it was just -- that was so easy for Gary Weitzman.

WEITZMAN

12:56:36
That's just to make up for the Chinchilla questions you lobbed at me earlier.

LITZINGER

12:56:39
(laugh) The really tough ones, the tough ones, that made up for it. Thank you, Gary.

WEITZMAN

12:56:43
Sure.

MS. SANDRA TSING-LOH

12:56:44
Is pregnancy a drag? This is Sandra Tsing-Loh with the Loh Down on Science saying it is if you're a Bottlenose Dolphin. Meet Shawn Noren from U.C. Santa Cruz. She filmed swimming and very pregnant people-friendly dolphins in Hawaii before and after they gave birth. She also compared their weights and girth. She found that pregnant dolphins had 51 percent more surface area. That's a whale of a baby bump.

MS. SANDRA TSING-LOH

12:57:13
This actually doubled the drag they encountered in the water, and slowed them to a crawl. Their average swim speed plummeted by 62 percent. They also stiffened up and moved by beating their tails in unusually short and quick stubby strides, the dolphin version of the mother-to-be waddle. As if all this weren't enough, their blubbery bods made them way too buoyant. They had to work four times harder to dive.

MS. SANDRA TSING-LOH

12:57:39
In a nutshell, a dolphin with a well-baked bun in the oven can barely get around, making it harder to catch dinner, and easier to be dinner. And don't even talk to me about water weight. But it all works out, and when baby Flipper comes out, so worth it. Aww.

NARRATOR

12:57:59
The Loh Down on Science online at lohdown.org. Produced by 89.3 KPCC and the California Institute of Technology, and made possible by TIAA CREF.

LITZINGER

12:58:13
We'll close the door of "The Animal House" today with the answer to our Critter Quiz. Earlier we asked if you knew the name of the one place on earth where feral squirrels cannot be found. The answer? Australia. Although Gray Squirrels were introduced there around 1880, their colonies died out. The Indian Palm Squirrel was introduced around 1898 and is confined to the area in and around the South Perth Zoo. Thanks to our guests Mark Pearson, Chris Servheen, Brian Sharp, David Mizejewski and Paul Trout. Also thanks to Dr. Gary Weitzman for his contribution today. Thanks to you for joining us in "The Animal House." I'm Sam Litzinger.
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