Celebrating The Dragon And The Squirrel
Transcript for:
Celebrating The Dragon And The Squirrel MR. SAM LITZINGER
12:33:32
Welcome back to "The Animal House." I'm Sam Litzinger. This week marks the celebration of the Chinese New Year in which animals have always played a significant role. For the Chinese, 2012 is known as the Year of the Dragon, which happens to be the only mythical animal on their calendar. It's probably due to the fact of the numerous animal monster myths circulated throughout human history.
MR. SAM LITZINGER
12:33:50
The dragon is maybe the most recognized, celebrated, and for some, the most terrifying. Our next guest in "The Animal House" has written a book about monster myths and their connection to real-life animals. The title is "Deadly Powers: Animal Predators and the Mythic Imagination," and the author of the book is Paul A. Trout. He's professor emeritus at Montana State University. He speaks to us from station KGLT in Bozeman, Montana. Paul, glad to have you with us in "The Animal House."
DR. PAUL TROUT
12:34:17
I'm very happy to be here.
LITZINGER
12:34:18
In some way, does making a myth help us bring an element of control over the animals into play?
TROUT
12:34:26
I think it does. In fact, I present some sort of a theory about how early storytelling and then much later, myth making emerged from our relationship with these deadly powers, with these animals.
LITZINGER
12:34:42
What power do the myths still hold over us?
TROUT
12:34:45
Well, in third world countries where predators still take an enormous number of lives each year, particularly the crocodile, these myths are very helpful in reminding villagers of the dangers these predators present, and in sort of toughening people to living amongst them. The San Tribe in Africa actually has elaborate initiation ceremonies where the elders dress up as various kinds of predators and on a given day, invade the village and chase the children around, capture them, and then go through a sort of death ceremony, and then the children are of course revived, brought back to the village.
TROUT
12:35:34
But this is to sort of alert them to the dangers -- continuing dangers that they face whenever they go out to hunt or to gather anything in the woods. And for us, it's a little more complicated. Of course we no longer live daily fear of being eaten alive by an animal, although occasionally we do encounter very deadly creatures in the woods here in Montana. But we, I think, are sensing that we're losing touch with a very hard-earned survival device, the ability to detect predators, but now the predators are not the carnivore, they are the human predators that we seem to be implicating in our society to an alarming extent.
TROUT
12:36:29
I mean, it's a sad truth that we probably stand a better chance of being hunted, killed, and eaten by another human in our society than by an animal.
LITZINGER
12:36:42
You talk about so many interesting animal predators in the mythic imagination, do you have particular favorite out of all these that you talk about?
TROUT
12:36:50
No, I don't really have a favorite animal predator, though I did when writing the book get new respect for the leopard, which is one of the smaller cats, but which has extraordinary ability to climb trees. In fact, it was probably the primary predator of primates for millions of years, and it probably lends its essential features to the image of the dragon.
LITZINGER
12:37:17
Paul Trout is the author of "Deadly Powers: Animal Predators and the Mythic Imagination," a fascinating read. Paul, thank you very much for being with us in "The Animal House."
TROUT
12:37:26
You're quite welcome.
LITZINGER
12:37:30
January 21 is National Squirrel Appreciation Day. I bet you didn't know that. Maybe if you were a squirrel, you did. To help us explore a few reasons why we should honor this distinguished member of the rodent family, author and naturalist David Mizejewski of The National Wildlife Federation. David's also a frequent contributor to "The Today Show" on the NBC TV network. Glad to have you back with us here.
MR. DAVID MIZEJEWSKI
12:37:50
Of course. Thanks for having me.
LITZINGER
12:37:51
So when you were a kid, you were surrounded by squirrels out in your backyard. Did you grow up in an area that was rife with squirrels?
MIZEJEWSKI
12:37:57
I did actually. I grew up in the New Jersey suburbs about an hour south of New York City, and we had lots and lots of squirrels.
LITZINGER
12:38:03
How were things in New Jersey when you were growing up?
MIZEJEWSKI
12:38:05
Well, you know, I think squirrels get a bad rap all around the country, and I think that, you know, one of my goals and my missions in life as a naturalist is to help people see how cool some of the really common species that we have actually are. Just because they live around us doesn't mean that they're any less fascinating than, you know, more exotic animals from around the globe.
LITZINGER
12:38:23
I'm assuming there are different kinds of -- lots of different kinds of squirrels.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:38:26
There are actually 67 squirrel species found just in North America. You know, we tend to think of the Gray Squirrel, the Eastern Gray Squirrel, you know, that's the classic, you know, gray fuzzy-tailed critter that we, you know, is native to the east and has been introduced in the West. But, you know, people don't think of ground squirrels. If you live our west or in the Midwest, there's lots of different ground squirrel species.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:38:47
Chipmunks, Marmots, which the common of which is the Groundhog or Woodchuck that we have also in the east here, they're all part of the squirrel family. Prairie Dogs are squirrels too. So when you add in all of those different kinds of squirrels, that's what, you know, beefs up the number there. But, you know, they're amazing animals and they're really important in the ecosystem.
LITZINGER
12:39:06
You know, the things about squirrels, I'm fascinated by them too, and I think anybody that watches them for a long period of time just naturally is. They're always busy. They're always booked. They gotta go someplace, they gotta move, they gotta keep going. So do they have like a Day Planner and they're -- what are they -- what's going on in the squirrel's head?
MIZEJEWSKI
12:39:21
Well, you know, I think this is -- it is a slightly loaded question because it's really relative, and any species is very smart when it comes to doing what that species is supposed to be doing, which is surviving in their ecosystem. So, you know, are squirrels gonna win, you know, an amazing award? Probably not for their brains, but, you know, when it comes to finding a way into a birdfeeder, no one's gonna beat a squirrel. No matter what you do to keep a squirrel out of a birdfeeder, they're almost always gonna figure out a solution.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:39:49
When it comes to remembering where they've cached nuts, you know, some squirrels have an incredible memory that humans could never even hope to match. You know, when they've hid, you know, hundreds of nuts all around the landscape, and then can remember where they are, it's pretty amazing. So, you know, it really depends on how you look at it, on perspective. I think squirrels are pretty amazing because they can not only do those things, but they figured out how to survive in close proximity to people.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:40:16
Think about how many animal species, wild animal species, have figured out how to do that. Not very many. I have a tremendous respect for species that have managed to survive all of the horrible things that the human race has done to the rest of the environment, you know. Again, most species have been pushed away from wherever there is dense human populations, but not squirrels. Not at least the Eastern Gray Squirrel and other critters like, you know, chipmunks and things like that and woodchucks and some of the ground squirrels, California Ground Squirrels, you know.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:40:43
Speaking of skills and smarts, these guys, the California Ground Squirrel, have actually figured out how to intimidate rattlesnakes, which is a potential predator. They've evolved an immunity to rattlesnake venom, and let me tell you, when they see a rattlesnake, they will mob it and harass it and drive it away, because they know it can't really hurt them.
LITZINGER
12:41:03
We're talking with David Mizejewski of the National Wildlife Federation. We're talking about squirrels. The ordinary person, what should we do to celebrate National Squirrel Appreciation Day? Now, you suggested feeding the squirrels. Is that a good idea?
MIZEJEWSKI
12:41:15
I think feeding the squirrels is okay to do, generally speaking at National Wildlife Federation, you know, because we've got whole programs dedicated to helping wildlife in your backyard, our certified Wildlife Habitat Program. Generally we discourage the feeding of mammals, and mostly that's more for things like raccoons and foxes and skunks. A lot of people think, oh, let's put out a big bowl of cat food or our table scraps for those kinds of animals.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:41:37
That really doesn't help them, it just gets them more habituated to people and more dependent on us, and causes more interactions with people which usually don't end well for the animal. With squirrels, I fudge the line a little bit because they're fun to watch. It's not really gonna hurt them, you know, if you're feeding them in moderation, maybe some birdseed, maybe some, you know, mixed nuts and things like that, you know, maybe some corn cobs here and there.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:41:59
What you don't want to do is put out, you know, pounds and pounds of bird seed and tons of food for them, and artificially support more squirrels than actually should be in the area, and, you know, you don't want them to really become dependent on us. But every once in a while, a little bit here and there, it's a fun way to attract them, and just like with the birds, so that we can enjoy them.
LITZINGER
12:42:17
Defend the squirrel if you would. Just say a few more words about the importance of the squirrel in the overall ecosystem.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:42:22
Squirrels are important. They help, you know, plant tree seedlings -- or tree seeds when they bury their nuts. They don't remember where every nut is, and so some of them...
LITZINGER
12:42:30
They have good memories...
MIZEJEWSKI
12:42:30
Yeah, right.
LITZINGER
12:42:30
...but not perfect memories.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:42:31
Some of them will actually sprout into trees and that's really important in urban areas. And again, I think just kind of cultivating that sense of wonder that you maybe had a child that you no longer have by looking out the door and seeing this wild animal that's literally right outside your door. That's a pretty cool thing. They might not seem as bright as other animals, but pay attention to them a little bit and I think you'll be surprised.
LITZINGER
12:42:52
So your friend the squirrel.
MIZEJEWSKI
12:42:53
That's right.
LITZINGER
12:42:54
David Mizejewski, thank you very much for being with us in "The Animal House."
MIZEJEWSKI
12:42:56
You're welcome.
LITZINGER
12:42:57
Dr. Gary Weitzman answers your animal-related questions next in "The Animal House."
Transcripts of WAMU programs are available for personal use. Transcripts are provided "As Is" without warranties of any kind, either express or implied. WAMU does not warrant that the transcript is error-free. For all WAMU programs, the broadcast audio should be considered the authoritative version. Transcripts are owned by WAMU 88.5 FM American University Radio and are protected by laws in both the United States and international law. You may not sell or modify transcripts or reproduce, display, distribute, or otherwise use the transcript, in whole or in part, in any way for any public or commercial purpose without the express written permission of WAMU. All requests for uses beyond personal and noncommercial use should be referred to (202) 885-1200.