Can Cats And Black Snakes Co-exist?
Transcript for:
Can Cats And Black Snakes Co-exist? MR. SAM LITZINGER
12:17:34
Welcome back to "The Animal House." I'm Sam Litzinger joined by Dr. Gary Weitzman, the chief executive officer of the Washington Animal Rescue League. You can tell us about your animal friends at 1-877-610-3647. Again, that number is 1-877-610-3647. You can send us an email at animalhouse@wamu.org, plus, see how well you know your animals. By now you ought to know all the animals. We've been on the air long enough that you should know every (laugh) ….
DR. GARY WEITZMAN
12:17:59
We've covered them all, haven't we?
LITZINGER
12:18:00
You can check us out at Facebook.com/wamuanimalhouse. Let's start with an email question this time from ML. "For the last three to four months, my two horses have been adopted by several crows." What? Let's keep reading, shall we?
WEITZMAN
12:18:14
What does that mean? Okay.
LITZINGER
12:18:15
"The crows," oh, I see, "the crows will walk below the horses and at times hop on the back of the horses and get a ride. The horses seem to enjoy the company and tolerate the relationship." So, okay. That's one thing you can comment on.
WEITZMAN
12:18:27
Yeah, okay.
LITZINGER
12:18:28
What's going on here, and then the second question from ML, this is really gonna be loaded. "Who is the more intelligent, a crow or a horse?"
WEITZMAN
12:18:35
Oh, that's a good question.
LITZINGER
12:18:36
Which do you want to start with?
WEITZMAN
12:18:37
Let's start with the -- yeah. Let's start with that last problem.
LITZINGER
12:18:39
The last one?
WEITZMAN
12:18:40
We all know.
LITZINGER
12:18:40
Who's more intelligent, a crow or a horse?
WEITZMAN
12:18:42
Let's see. For all of our horse listeners...
LITZINGER
12:18:44
Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:18:44
….horses, all of our crow listeners out there, crows.
LITZINGER
12:18:46
Okay.
WEITZMAN
12:18:46
We want to be very diplomatic here.
LITZINGER
12:18:47
You've learned very well. So what's going on with this relationship between the horses and the crows?
WEITZMAN
12:18:52
It sounds like that little fish that hooks onto the shark, right?
LITZINGER
12:18:55
Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:18:55
And I think it is probably the same thing. Crows are smart.
LITZINGER
12:18:57
Or that little bird that picks the teeth of the...
WEITZMAN
12:18:59
Mm-hmm.
LITZINGER
12:18:59
...crocodiles?
WEITZMAN
12:19:00
The crocodile. Isn't that an urban myth though?
LITZINGER
12:19:02
I don't think so. Maybe. (laugh) Somebody will write in...
WEITZMAN
12:19:05
I don't know either. We've got to find out.
LITZINGER
12:19:06
...and tell us. Well, anyway, there's this -- there's a kind of what, symbiotic relationship?
WEITZMAN
12:19:10
Yeah. Yeah. Probably. But, you know, for crows, they are smart. I mean, Edgar Allan Poe had it down, and that was a raven. But we know crows are smart, and I think there's a lot of reasons you might want to hitch a ride on a horse. It might just be pleasant, I don't know. It might -- there's a lot of food around there.
LITZINGER
12:19:25
There is.
WEITZMAN
12:19:25
Grain. And I don't know of any crows that actually do any dental work on horses. (laugh) So if anybody sees that out there, they need to write in or call us and let us know.
LITZINGER
12:19:34
But that's -- the crows must be smart enough to say, hey, if I hang around with these horses, interesting things happen.
WEITZMAN
12:19:38
Yeah.
LITZINGER
12:19:38
I get food, and the horses are maybe nice to me. Maybe as they're swatting their tails around getting rid of flies...
WEITZMAN
12:19:44
Mm-hmm.
LITZINGER
12:19:44
...I get a cool breeze. Who knows?
WEITZMAN
12:19:45
Something, yeah. Just watch the end of that tail, that's all.
LITZINGER
12:19:49
(laugh) Well, who knows. Maybe other people will write in with these kind of strange relationships pertaining to animals.
WEITZMAN
12:19:53
Yeah. Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:19:54
I'd be curious to see what's going on. Our telephone number is 1-877-610-3647. Our email address is animalhouse@wamu.org. Let's take a telephone call if we can. I think this is Ryan on the line. Ryan, glad to have you with us in "The Animal House." Question for Dr. Gary?
RYAN
12:20:09
Well, I have two cats that have recently transitioned from living at one country-style home to a farmhouse, and they've transitioned -- they've been indoor/outdoor cats. The mother was feral and adopted us, and we started feeding her and got her fixed after her first litter, and kept the runt from that litter and now we've got the two of them. My main issue is this new house we're in, it's an old farmhouse from like 1850. It's been renovated and it's nice and cozy, but there's a family of black snakes that live in the basement.
WEITZMAN
12:20:42
Oh, really?
RYAN
12:20:43
The previous owners lived there for 40 years and they said that they had been there the entire time.
WEITZMAN
12:20:49
Really? So they -- interesting. That's an interesting clause on the real estate contract. They disclosed they have a family of snakes.
LITZINGER
12:20:54
House filled with black snakes. So now you're wondering just -- because I don't want to lose your phone line there, Ryan, just in case. It's a little shaky. So you're wondering about the interaction possibly between the cats the snakes, and whether this will work?
RYAN
12:21:06
Yes, exactly. Because the cats are very interested in the basement, which is where...
WEITZMAN
12:21:09
Oh.
LITZINGER
12:21:10
Oh, okay. All right.
WEITZMAN
12:21:11
Okay. I don't like the sound of this at all, for a lot of reasons.
LITZINGER
12:21:14
All right. Here comes Dr. Gary.
WEITZMAN
12:21:14
Hey, Ryan, how long have you lived there?
RYAN
12:21:16
We moved in in November.
LITZINGER
12:21:17
Okay.
WEITZMAN
12:21:18
Okay. So a month or so, a little bit more. Yeah. I would be careful of that. There's a couple things. The snakes aren't -- it's not great to have snakes in your basement. See, this is why people tune into this show, so they can hear profound statements like it's not good to have snakes in your house.
LITZINGER
12:21:30
It's not great to have snakes in your basement.
WEITZMAN
12:21:33
I'm worried about the cats and I'm worried about the snakes. So a young black snake is definitely in jeopardy with a cat. There's no question. Now, an older black snake, an adult, a cat could possibly -- I don't know if a cat would be in jeopardy, but I think that snake could take care of himself. And then cats being cats, you know, curiosity and all. I just don't like the mix of the two, you know. Cats are really, you know, they're great predators, and black snakes are gonna not want to be prey. So I don't like the mix of that. How has it been going so far?
RYAN
12:22:03
You know, I've been keeping the cats out of the basement as much as...
WEITZMAN
12:22:05
Oh, good.
RYAN
12:22:07
She sneaks down in there everyone once in awhile, and when she sneaks down in there, she does, she hops up on the vents and in the crawl spaces, little areas and stuff, and I know she can smell them and I know...
WEITZMAN
12:22:16
Yeah. Yeah.
LITZINGER
12:22:18
Well, what do we do here, Gary?
WEITZMAN
12:22:19
Well, a couple things. You're in Virginia, and it is getting into winter. This isn't the time to relocate the snakes...
RYAN
12:22:24
Mm-hmm.
WEITZMAN
12:22:24
...because it's too cold outside for them.
RYAN
12:22:25
Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:22:26
But so if you could, since you've just moved in there, maybe keep the cats out of the basement until the spring when it's warmer and you can actually get a wildlife rehabilitator to take them. Or you can actually -- there's a number of services you can avail yourself of to get the snakes relocated. The best one I think in most of our areas, but definitely in yours too is on the Humane Society of the United States website, and they will help you and humanely move those snakes. You won't have to do anything. They'll just...
RYAN
12:22:51
Okay. The Humane...
WEITZMAN
12:22:52
They'll just connect you with somebody that will do it for you. There may be a fee. It wouldn't go to the Humane Society, of course, but it would go to this humane trapper to get those snakes somewhere that might be a little bit more appropriate for them. Do you have any idea -- I'm thinking like "Raiders of the Lost Ark." I mean, do you have any idea how many snakes you have?
RYAN
12:23:10
I don't. I mean, they've been there for at least 40 years, you know. I mean, when I go down there, I see new snake skins fairly regularly.
WEITZMAN
12:23:16
Really?
RYAN
12:23:17
You know, they wrap around something and then shed their skin.
LITZINGER
12:23:20
Well, that's -- the advice seems to be then wait until the spring, I mean, give the snakes a nice quiet home. The black snakes are not gonna hurt anything?
WEITZMAN
12:23:27
No. They're not gonna hurt anything, but, you know, there may be a little tussle with the cats who may push the envelope a little bit.
LITZINGER
12:23:31
Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:23:32
You know what you could do right now I would say, go on the HSUS website, HSUS.org, and see what they recommend and talk to somebody now.
LITZINGER
12:23:38
Plan for the spring on that.
WEITZMAN
12:23:39
Make a plan. They may even have a better idea for something that you could actually do right now. Now, if we're talking about 300 snakes, then I think we have another conversation, and maybe something that should have been disclosed before you moved in.
LITZINGER
12:23:49
Right. That should have been a rider on the contract. (laugh)
WEITZMAN
12:23:51
Definitely.
LITZINGER
12:23:51
So try that Ryan. What was the -- HSUS--
WEITZMAN
12:23:53
HSUS.org.
LITZINGER
12:23:54
Look on the wildlife page there and there probably is a recommendation for somebody who specializes in black snakes. Thanks Ryan. But black snakes are not gonna really hurt any person?
WEITZMAN
12:24:05
Oh no, definitely not. They're harmless. They'll just be frightened, and the cats, a little bit of a problem.
LITZINGER
12:24:09
1-877-610-3647 is our telephone number. Our email address is animalhouse@wamu.org. Let's take a telephone call from Ellen. Ellen, glad to have you with us in "The Animal House." Question for Dr. Gary?
ELLEN
12:24:22
I'm calling about my four-and-a-half-year-old Border Collie mix named Timmy.
WEITZMAN
12:24:27
Okay.
ELLEN
12:24:27
He's a rescue, and I've had him for about two-and-a-half years, and he's had this particular issue for a really long time, ever since I've gotten him. No one can quite figure out why he sneezes a lot, and he does it most when he's getting excited and rambunctious and playful. You know, he'll just be rolling around on the floor and being silly, and just all of a sudden achoo, achoo, achoo, or sometimes...
WEITZMAN
12:24:48
Really?
ELLEN
12:24:48
...he'll pause -- he'll just stop dead still and then achoo really big.
WEITZMAN
12:24:53
Okay.
ELLEN
12:24:54
He's got not health problems, no allergies that we know of, no other symptoms. The vet has never worried about it, or...
WEITZMAN
12:24:59
I was gonna ask you if you -- right.
ELLEN
12:25:00
...the vet really doesn't care. There -- he just sneezed. I don't know if you heard him.
WEITZMAN
12:25:04
Oh, okay. (laugh) We gotta get him -- yeah, gotta get him on the phone.
LITZINGER
12:25:06
Hold the phone up there and see if Timmy does it again.
WEITZMAN
12:25:08
Poor Timmy. It sounds as though it's -- well, there's a couple things. It certainly sounds like it could be anatomic, and Sam has a Beagle that does a lot of that as well.
LITZINGER
12:25:17
Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:25:17
Yeah. So he knows very well what we're talking about. But for this, it's -- he's a young, healthy, dog and you've already brought him to the vet and had him checked out.
ELLEN
12:25:24
Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:25:24
Nothing was found, and this is just a habit when he -- and only what provokes it? Only when he gets excited or he's running around?
ELLEN
12:25:30
Yeah. I would say when he gets excited is when it happens, because it's usually when he's on the floor rolling around on his back just like he's kind of a crazy rambunctious dog...
WEITZMAN
12:25:39
Okay.
ELLEN
12:25:39
..when he starts to get in that mode.
WEITZMAN
12:25:40
Oh, yeah.
ELLEN
12:25:40
And then he just can't stop sneezing.
WEITZMAN
12:25:42
Well, with the proviso that you've already checked him out with your vet, because obviously we can't do that here...
ELLEN
12:25:47
Right.
WEITZMAN
12:25:47
...I would say it sounds completely harmless. It's probably more than anything kind of alarming, you know, maybe irritating to hear all the time, but it's nothing I think to worry about...
ELLEN
12:25:57
Right.
WEITZMAN
12:25:57
...because it should like he just does it when he gets excited. So then I would think it's either anatomical or even an obsessive behavior on his part, but it probably is anatomical. We get a lot of emergencies where people rush their animals in, their dogs that is, that they're choking -- quote unquote "choking," and they're actually not, they're -- it's a reverse sneeze, and it's just...
ELLEN
12:26:14
Yeah. He does that that too actually.
WEITZMAN
12:26:16
See I wondered. So maybe anatomically the poor guy's nose and his sinus cavities and the back of his throat, his soft palate, there's just a little conformation issue. It's almost maybe like a deviated septum for us, or any of those things that we can always live with, and it just happens when he gets excited and, you know, he gets a little bit of liquid that goes down there and it causes that sneeze, or maybe it goes up behind the soft palate in his case so it causes him to sneeze, and I would say as long as you watch it, it doesn't get worse, and your notify your vet if that happens, and your veterinarian's already checked him out, I'd saying nothing -- nothing at all to work about. Poor little guy though.
ELLEN
12:26:50
Great. Well, thanks...
WEITZMAN
12:26:52
You get him all happy and he sneezes as a -- in his excitement.
ELLEN
12:26:55
Yeah. He's really funny, and I just -- I really wasn't worried about it because, like you said, it's not been getting worse, he's been doing it forever, and there's no other symptoms of it being anything, and the vet's fine with it, but more I'd like to know why.
WEITZMAN
12:27:06
Okay.
ELLEN
12:27:06
I've never had anyone be able to explain why...
WEITZMAN
12:27:09
Yeah. It's that darn nose.
LITZINGER
12:27:12
Dogs' noses, man.
WEITZMAN
12:27:12
Mm-hmm. Very sensitive things.
LITZINGER
12:27:14
I've had a lot of experience with those too. Thanks very much, Ellen. Much appreciated.
ELLEN
12:27:18
Thanks a lot.
LITZINGER
12:27:19
And then Ellen's probably mad because she has to keep saying gesundheit.
WEITZMAN
12:27:22
I know.
LITZINGER
12:27:22
Gesundheit, every 15 seconds.
WEITZMAN
12:27:23
Yeah. That can get tiring.
LITZINGER
12:27:24
That another sneeze.
WEITZMAN
12:27:24
That's the irritating part.
LITZINGER
12:27:26
1-877-610-3647 is our telephone number. Our email address is animalhouse@wamu.org. Let's take a telephone call from is it Caroline or Caroline? Hello there, Caroline, is that you?
CAROLINE
12:27:39
Yeah, hi.
LITZINGER
12:27:39
Hi. Glad to have you in "The Animal House." Question for Dr. Gary?
CAROLINE
12:27:42
Yes. I had two pet guinea pigs that were both sisters, but one passed away, and I don't know if we should get another one.
WEITZMAN
12:27:51
Oh, okay.
LITZINGER
12:27:52
Oh, interesting question.
WEITZMAN
12:27:53
Yeah, good.
LITZINGER
12:27:54
I'm sorry you lost your guinea -- it's Caroline, right?
CAROLINE
12:27:55
Yeah.
LITZINGER
12:27:57
I'm sorry you lost your guinea pig. That was probably traumatic for you.
CAROLINE
12:28:01
Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:28:02
How old is your current guinea pig and was she the sibling of the other guinea pig?
CAROLINE
12:28:07
Yeah. She was a sibling.
WEITZMAN
12:28:08
Okay.
CAROLINE
12:28:09
She's four and a half.
WEITZMAN
12:28:10
Okay. Yeah. Guinea pigs, four and a half, five, six years old, but they're great, great animals. So what do -- you want to get another one?
CAROLINE
12:28:18
Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:28:18
Okay. I think that's probably a good idea. How does she -- how long ago did you lose her sister?
CAROLINE
12:28:23
It was actually about two years ago.
WEITZMAN
12:28:25
Oh, really? Okay. I think it's great. Guinea pigs are social animals and it's good to have more than one. Now, your guinea pig is getting relatively mature, but I think there's no problem getting another female guinea pig. At a lot of shelters who are often faced with the problem of having tons and tons of guinea pigs and gerbils and hamsters, you can often get a guinea pig and just pair them up and see if they get along first.
LITZINGER
12:28:47
Now, what should -- yeah. I was gonna ask, what should Caroline do in terms of introducing the new guinea pig to the household?
WEITZMAN
12:28:51
Yeah. I think slow, you know, guinea pigs are pretty placid. It's not gonna be world war three in there, but I would always test them out together, so if you can, have two mesh cages and put them together, but don't actually have the guinea pigs able to touch each other and sort of test them out and see what their reactions are, and then you can actually put them in a large cage together and see how that goes. But it would be good to have gloves or something so you could separate them, or a piece of cardboard or something you could put between them in case they just don't take a liking to each other.
WEITZMAN
12:29:20
But generally guinea pigs really -- they're very good together, so I think your girl sounds like she might like company, but she's been dealing pretty well for a couple years. But I think it's always good to have animals in groups.
LITZINGER
12:29:31
Good for you, Caroline. By the way, why did you choose guinea pigs?
CAROLINE
12:29:34
We have some allergies in my family, so...
WEITZMAN
12:29:36
Yeah. I think it's a great pet. You know, a guinea pig was my very first pet.
CAROLINE
12:29:40
Oh, that's nice.
WEITZMAN
12:29:41
And now look what happened. (laugh)
LITZINGER
12:29:43
So you're destined to become a veterinarian at some point, Caroline. Is that all right?
CAROLINE
12:29:48
Yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:29:49
(laugh) Okay. I think she -- you almost said no. That's okay too.
LITZINGER
12:29:52
She was thinking about it. No, she's good. So again, recap the advice for her. She should get...
WEITZMAN
12:29:55
Yeah. I would say go to a shelter.
LITZINGER
12:29:57
Go to a shelter, right.
WEITZMAN
12:29:58
Absolutely. Go to a shelter.
LITZINGER
12:29:58
We always say that, yeah.
WEITZMAN
12:29:59
Yeah. And see what they've got for guinea pigs.
LITZINGER
12:30:00
Or call around.
WEITZMAN
12:30:01
Right. And there's a ton of them that really need homes. So if you're looking for another one, I would say go to a shelter and start out there and have them test the animals together.
LITZINGER
12:30:09
Good for you, Caroline. Report back to us in a few months after you've introduced the new guinea pig into the mix, will you?
CAROLINE
12:30:14
Oh, yeah, of course.
LITZINGER
12:30:15
All right. Thanks very much.
WEITZMAN
12:30:17
Great.
LITZINGER
12:30:17
Was it a guinea pig for you that got you interested in veterinary science?
WEITZMAN
12:30:19
I think I was interested before I got the guinea pig and then we got Charlotte when I was like four years old. Something like that.
LITZINGER
12:30:25
Aww, Charlotte the guinea pig.
WEITZMAN
12:30:26
Charlotte, yeah, yeah. No pig, just the guinea pig. (laugh)
LITZINGER
12:30:29
I see. You could have gotten a whole pig, but instead you just got the guinea pig.
WEITZMAN
12:30:33
I know.
LITZINGER
12:30:33
You were a smart little kid, weren't you?
WEITZMAN
12:30:34
Yeah. My parents were lucky, right.
LITZINGER
12:30:35
(laugh) Thanks, Dr. Gary.
WEITZMAN
12:30:37
Sure.
LITZINGER
12:30:38
Coming up, a best-selling author shares his thoughts about the loss of pet in "The Animal House."
MS. KAREN MUNSON
12:31:00
I'm "Animal House" producer Karen Munson. Here are a few of the stories that caught our eyes this week. Bay City, Michigan citizens have voted a Labrador Retriever the top dog for their favorite animal story of 2011. Dodger, a canine advocate for the Bay County Circuit Court, comforts child victims of physical and sexual abuse. The yellow Lab had his first assignment on December 5 when an 11-year-boy attended the sentencing of the man who had assaulted him.
MS. KAREN MUNSON
12:31:26
When the defendant entered the courtroom, the boy tensed up and stopped petting Dodger. The dog put his head under the boy's hand and nuzzled his cheek. The child went from taciturn and nervous to talkative and smiling as he played with his new furry friend. Speaking of animal stories from last year, you may remember the one about a Colorado cat who was lost then found five years later in New York City.
MS. KAREN MUNSON
12:31:47
Well, a cat that had wandered away from his new home in Naples, Florida has been reunited with his owner. After being found nearly 2,000 miles away in Golden, Colorado, Wayland, an orange-striped tabby cat when missing in June after making his exit through a hole in a dryer vent within an hour after being adopted. And on Christmas Eve, a lamb was born in a Cincinnati nativity scene that featured a live animal display.
MS. KAREN MUNSON
12:32:14
The Cincinnati Enquirer reports that conservatory officials say the birthing went well, and mother and baby are doing fine. The conservatory's director say they're thinking of calling the female lamb Merry, for Merry little Christmas. Happy new year, everyone. More information about these stories is at wamuanimalhouse.org.
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